Air Con Installer - Part 3

I've also gotten quotation from a few other companies, which I would briefly share here. The quotation is based on my specifications that I mentioned in my previous post (looked at the wordings in blue) and also requested for two trips installation. 

Please note that the pricing mentioned is only for reference purpose as companies may run promotion from times to times, so you may get a better or worse deal than what I've gotten. The points that I mentioned were based on what I've found out/understood and the decision to drop them was based on our evaluation criteria and experience while dealing with the various companies.

They are listed according in alphabetical order and not in any order of dislike.

1. Aircon Citi - $4,350

• They do provide free no obligation site survey.
• Dropped this company due to pricing not really that attractive. For this price, I would rather pay a bit more to engage more established companies. 

2. Cold Engine - $3,950

• They provide 2 years warranty for workmanship. Most installers provide only 1 year warranty for workmanship, so this seems attractive to us.
• They do provide free no obligation site survey.
• Scott, who is highly recommended based on a number of online comments that I saw, is no longer doing the installation himself. He now does mostly site survey.
• We did consider them when we decided to give up on the first installer that we choose to do the installation for our house. The pricing was comparable but they could not do a third trip for us without charging additional. Also, I asked if Scott would be the one doing the installation for us but was told that he can only do the site survey. The good reviews about Scott were on his installation, so we were not sure how the workmanship would be if he's not the one doing the installation. I feel that installation is much more important than the site survey because no matter how good the person can advise during site survey, ultimately it depends on the installers' skill to do a good installation job for you to minimise possible issue from happening. Of course, the person doing the site survey has to be experienced enough to provide sound and convincing advice; if he cannot convince you, you'll probably strike his company off the list. Hence, between this company and another company in the running of our second choice, we decided to go for the other company instead. I would write on a separate post why we gave up on the first installer of our choice and why we wanted a third trip.

3. Cool Serve - $4,590.30

• Supply and install 1 no. of Normal L or opening bracket, if any - $160.50
• $60 for site survey, which can be waived off at the final bill upon confirming order.
• Dropped this company due to high price and no free no obligation site survey.

4. Cool World - $4,230 

• We can request for a site survey if we confirm that we're engaging them.
• Dropped this company due to no free no obligation site survey.

5. Dynomatic - $4,500

• It was recommended by my ID, so the person came down with my ID for a free no obligation site survey. 
• Dropped this company due to high price.

6. Natural Cool - ???

• They do provide free no obligation site survey and we arranged for one. The person doing the site survey was late and did not inform us he would be late.
• They did not follow up with a quotation. I'm not going to bother chasing after quotation because to me, if a company doesn't follow up with a quotation automatically, it means they don't really care if they get your business and if the company isn't proactive during pre-sales, it left me wondering what will happen during post-sales.

Recommended Materials for Air Con Installation

Before I moved on to share more about other air con installers, let me share about the recommended materials so that you know what I'm looking for versus what's available in the market by default without upgrading the materials. 

These are the default materials quoted by most installers (I put most as I didn't get quotation from all available installers):

• 3/8 inch Armaflex (or can be Thermaflex or other brands offered by installer) Insulation Class 1 
• G23 Copper Piping
• 3 Core 40/70 Wire Cable
• 16mm PVC Drainage Pipe

Insulation
Armaflex is a rather popular and safe/reliable brand to be used for insulation in air con installation. It is a black rubber foam, which goes around the copper pipe. 3/8 inch is usually used for the copper pipe but many people opt to upgrade it to 1/2 inch to provide better insulation against condensation. The class (class 1 and 0) refers to the fire rated properties of the insulation, so some people comment that it's not necessary to upgrade to class 0.

If you see the picture, the insulation that wraps around the pvc drainage pipe is 1/4 inch. The insulation that wraps around the gas inlet and outlet, the set in the middle next to the pvc drainage pipe, is 3/8 inch. The insulation for the extreme right set of gas inlet and outlet is 1/2 inch.

Copper Piping
Copper piping is the one that carries the coolant gas. There are 2 pipes. The bigger pipe is the one that carries the gas from the indoor unit to the outdoor unit and the smaller pipe is the one that carries the gas from the outdoor unit to the indoor unit. G (guage) 23 or 22 refers to the thickness of the copper pipes, so G23 is 0.61mm and G22 is 0.71mm. I read that copper pipes should be bent using a pipe bender so that it will a nicely bent pipe, and that if the copper pipes are not installed properly, it may cause condensation of the pipes at certain area. 

I checked with an installer and was told that they have the tool to bend the bigger pipe but there is no tool available to bend the smaller pipe, so it will be bent using hand. They cannot use the tool provided for the bigger pipe to bend the small pipe. He also shared that since the copper pipe's length is 15m, it is best to keep the running of the copper pipe within this length to avoid joining two copper pipes, this is to minimise condensation happening around the joint. Also, the longer the copper pipe runs, the longer it will take to cool the room, and if there are many bends along the piping route, it will take even longer to cool the room.

Hence, besides looking at the thickness of the copper pipe, do take note of the piping route. The shorter it is, the less bends there are, the better it is. It's not that installer wants to cut cost or do shortcut and hence, propose the shortest route.

Wire Cable
3C70 is usually used to wire up the outdoor unit to the power point while 3C40 is usually used to wire up the indoor units to the outdoor unit. Brands that people usually recommend are like Keystone and Sigma. Important thing to note for wire cable is to check if they are manufactured in Singapore, and not China.

Drainage Pipe
There are 2 sizes, 13mm and 16mm. Most installers would propose 16mm drainage pipe. Some installers (I'm not sure if all do so, it's best that you check with the installer) also install insulation for the drainage pipe, which 1/4 inch is more commonly used. 

The points that I shared here were mostly what I gathered from my online research and what I learnt from the various installers whom I spoke to (I'm not an expert in this area). I'm not sure if all the points mentioned above are 100% accurate but I've learnt a lot about installing an air con system. On the surface, it looks so simple but once you start looking into the details, you would realised that there's actually a lot of information to absorb. Based on what I've learnt so far, these are my specifications for the materials to be used for my Mitsubishi Starmex System 4.

• 1/2 inch Armaflex Insulation Class 0
• G22 Copper Piping
• 3 Core 40/70 Wire Cable (Keystone Singapore made)
• 16mm PVC Drainage Pipe with Armaflex insulation

Air Con Installer - Part 2

In part 2, I'm going to share about what I've gathered on Gain City (GC). To get similar specifications as what I asked from AD for MXY-4A28VA / MSY-GE10VA X3 + MSY-GE24VA, I would have to pay around $4,584. The price includes upgrading to 1/2 inch insulation (class 1 Armaflex) at $160, G22 copper pipe at $80 and $85 for additional trip.

Usually two trips installation is recommended as the first trip is to remove old piping/aircons and install new piping, and second trip is to install the new aircons after renovation has completed. The reason is that if you install the new aircons before renovation is completed, they may get very dusty and it won't be good for us when the aircons blow out dusty air. By default, GC only offers one trip, so you would need to top up if you need another trip.

While the 5 years extended warranty doesn't have catch like you have to buy servicing package from them, it does have other catch... We were told that the extended warranty would only cover up to a certain amount and once you reach that amount, the extended warranty would cease. If we want to have unlimited amount during the 5 years period, we would have to top up $129.

GC is one of the popular choices that many people go for but still, we decided to drop them from our consideration because

1. The price is on the high side.
2. I read quite a number of "horror stories" about GC on online forums and blogs. Example, I saw some comments talking about they pushing from one party to another party when something happened, so pointless to have warranty when you cannot get them to do the repairs. I also read how the installer damaged wardrobe/cupboard and another case whereby installer damaged the floor tile, and they cannot complain to GC to ask for compensation as the installers are the ones having to pay for any damage.

Please read my reviews/findings with a pinch of salt as your expectation and budget may be different from us. What we find expensive or not good, you may not feel so.

Upcoming next, I'll share with you about the recommended materials to use for air con installation based on what I gathered from my online research before I share more about other air con installers.

Air Con Installer - Part 1

I have been "hunting" around for a reliable and responsive air con installer to install a Mitsubishi Starmex System 4 for my house, so I started to ask shops/companies to give me a quote based on the following requirements. As my house's existing air-cons were serviced by Aircon Designs (AD), I asked my hubby to call them up to give us a quote. The company told him that they would first need to do a site survey before giving us a quote, so we arranged for a site survey. Subsequently, the sales executive quoted us the following.

MXY-4A28VA / MSY-GE10VA X2 + MSY-GE13VA + MSY-GE26VA at $4,450 nett.

To supply labour & material to install 1 set of Mit StarMEX inverter multi split wall mounted type A/C complete with 1/2" Thermaflex class "O" insulation, refrigerant G23 copper piping, diameter 16mm drainpipe, 3 core 40 Keystone control wire, 2.5mm wiring from condenser to isolator, PVC casing at expose area, vacuum system, charging in refrigerant gas, testing and commissioning

Compressor 5 yrs, Fancoil/Spare Parts 1 yr warranty by agent.
Installation workmanship 1 yr warranty.

I asked the sales executive to quote me for MXY-4A28VA / MSY-GE10VA X3 + MSY-GE24VA and the price was $4,390, which is only a savings of $60 for downsizing the 13VA to a 10VA and the 26VA to a 24VA. I also asked him if he could bundle in any free servicing since we have been their customer for so long (they installed our existing air-cons and been doing the servicing for the past many years), he told me "NO"! Oh well, so we gathered that there is no need to be loyal to any particular company.

As I've been researching quite a bit on the materials used for air-con installation, I asked the guy why G22 is not used. The reply was that it's because G22 is 0.71mm and G23 is 0.61mm, is 0.1mm thicker and for HDB, there is a lot of 90 degree bend, so G23 holds up better than G22. Well, I'm not quite sure if the reply was exactly correct... I found out from the web that G22 is harder to bend, so an installer needs to use a pipe bender to bend and the result will be a nicely bent pipe. If the installer uses hands to bend the pipe, it may result in some acute angle. Hence, are they trying to avoid using G22 so that they can do the job instead?

If we want to upgrade to G22, we would have to pay an additional $50 per set of piping. I figured it would probably end up to be around 4.5k if we were to engage them. Well, since they don't appreciate customer's loyalty, we decided to get more quotations for comparison. After comparing AD with few other companies, we decided to drop them from our consideration because

1. The price is on the high side.
2. There is no freebies to sweeten the deal for a long time customer.
3. The reply on why G22 is not used doesn't fully convinced us.

I'm revealing the company name for some of the air con installers since we have already ruled them out based on our evaluation. Up next will be Part 2 of the Air Con Installer Series, and it will be on Gain City (GC), so stay tuned...

SPSL aka PUB Testing for Electrical Rewiring

Since I've been living in my current house for coming to 16 years and very likely that I'm going to continue staying here for another 10 years, so a friend advised me to do electrical rewiring for my whole house. After discussing with hubby, we took up the friend's advice and have been hunting around for an electrician to do the work, which of course, we have found someone to do the job at a reasonable price of 3+k.

I've been lurking around in Renotalk forum searching for aircon deals, advice on where to buy kitchen sink, hob, etc, so I pondered upon a thread discussing about electrical stuff. I saw some people asking if the price quoted by the electrician is reasonable, whether PUB testing is required, etc. Hence, I replied to one of the postings saying that it is not necessary to do PUB testing based on my discussion with several electricians. Well, I was countered by another forum member saying that it's a must by the Act. Therefore, I decided to explore further on this PUB testing topic, especially I could not find much or any sharing on this on the Internet.

Based on what I gathered from various sources, it's NOT a must! 

• Hubby's cousin, who was our ID 16 years ago but is now handling only commercial renovation, told us that it's good to do the testing if doing rewiring for the whole house to safeguard yourself but there's certain requirements to follow in order to pass the testing. If you do not have testing done, you may face problem when you want to sell your HDB flat as they may ask or your insurance may not compensate you if a fire broke out. Do note that it's just MAY! 
• Our electrician told us that if you need PUB testing to be done, he told us that he needs to install an additional "black" thing for every lighting point and that would add $5 for every point. For points in carpentry works, cannot conceal it until you cannot see the casing/wiring, rationale is that one may accidentally drill into a wiring if you cannot see the casing/wiring. The DB box need to shift down to eye level (1.8m if I remembered it correctly), which means we can no longer have it installed at the current location and if the wire from our DB box to the main board outside is not long enough to connect to the new location, we would have to engage HDB to do a new wiring that would easily cost us about $400. Note that we only asked him based on our needs, so there may be more requirements to meet than what I mentioned here, such as those in the false ceiling, which we did not pursue further as we have decided to remove our existing false ceiling.
• Since installing electrical in a carpentry works pose an issue, we asked our ID. He jokingly told us that during his 9 years working experience as an ID, none of his customers staying in HDB flat had done any PUB testing, mostly those staying in private asked for it. He said guidelines are just guidelines, HDB is more concerned with works such as hacking of wall, concealing, etc.

What does HDB state on their website then? From what I read, testing of new wiring is required for "Additional lighting points/ fan points/ 13amps power points or extension of wiring/ rewiring". Strictly speaking, it means even if you just add a new electrical point, testing is required too, isn't it? It's not just rewiring that requires testing. Hence, any flat owner, be it you buy a new or resale flat, you would probably need to do the testing as most people would have installed at least a new point to cater to your needs. 

If you scroll down HDB website further, you would see a section on "Television Points". If strictly follow the guidelines, only a licensed StarHub Cable Vision (SCV) installer can alter or extend the original TV points, no electrician, not even a LEW can touch the TV points but why are there so many IDs/contractors/electricians can quote you for installation of TV points?

Singapore is a country governed by many laws, rules and regulations, and mechanisms/systems are put in placed to ensure that citizens follow them, especially if it's a die die must do. I would believe that if it's indeed a must by an ACT, probably HDB would have provisioned for this under some kind of "permit", at least that's what hubby and I think.

Well, the intention of bloging this topic is to share with people what I've found out based on my conversation with several people and read from the Internet. This is not to say that you can skip PUB testing; I don't have the authority to say that. You would have to assess for yourself, afterall it's your house that you and your family live in, not mine! Importantly, you need to find out the details from your electrician/ID/contractor on what PUB testing means to you, as in how would it affect your renovation, especially if you are going to conceal the wiring, install false ceiling, installing lighting in your carpentry, etc. Do not just sign on a contract with PUB testing listed as an item just because you are told that you need to do so and end up facing issue with your renovation when you cannot do certain things due to the requirements to pass PUB testing. It is better to clarify any doubt with the electrician/ID/contractor before signing on the dotted line to avoid any unhappy dispute later on. 

Not Naming Any Contractor Yet!

Well, if you have read my earlier posts since "Our Renovation Journey", you probably would have noticed that I didn't specifically mention the company names. However, the abbreviations I used are in a way "connected" to the company names.

I'm not naming any company name yet as the actual renovation works would only start on 30 May. It's too early to say if XXX is good or bad because companies/contractors are usually good in their pre-sales, which otherwise, people probably wouldn't have selected them in the first place. Well, IS and HA are considered good in their pre-sales and during discussions. I would have to assess when the actual works start but a good start during discussion stage is good!

For reviews, do continue to read my blog... Disclaimer: I do not get paid in any form if I do rave about any contractor. Likewise, it's my personal experience if I b*t*h about any particular contractor, which you may have a different experience, so if anything that I've written doesn't go well with you, just moved on and away from my blog. :-)

Our First Major Purchase!

Since we have confirmed on the ID, it's time to do some shopping and researching for plumber, electrician and air-con company. No idea where to start off first, I just "wandered" about in Internet, particularly Renotalk forum. By chance, I came upon a thread that discussed about kitchen sink and the much discussed sink was Kraus brand that people bought and shipped it back from Amazon US. Yup, you heard it right! 

The first few people who bought a Kraus sink actually paid for the shipping fees as it was not entitled to free shipping to Singapore, then someone shared that she managed to get the shipping fees waived! Now that's a pretty attractive deal if shipping fees (it's a whopping USD 250+!) can be waived, so many people tried to get it waived and most of them succeeded doing so. 

With all the good reviews and comments about unlikely to get such a good solid stainless steel sink at ~SGD500 locally, I decided to join the Kraus sink gang on Renotalk forum as well, haha... I wrote in, with a "story", to seek for a waiver of the shipping fees and yay, the CSO granted me an one-time exception based on that I'm a valued customer. I have been their customer for quite a long period, started my Amazon spreeing since 2007 when Jake was born.

I placed my order for a Kraus KHU100-32 32 inch Undermount Single Bowl 16 gauge Stainless Steel Kitchen Sink on 26 Apr and oh mine, they were fast! I received the sink on 3 May. The box arrived with no visible dent. We would usually see boxes with a "fragile" label if they contain fragile items. For this, you see a "heavy" label instead. 

We opened the box to check the sink itself. It took a bit of time and efforts to check as after you opened up the carton box, you see a styrofoam box, after opening it, you see a big black bag, open it up, tadah... The sink is shiny and looks real solid! As for the review on the sink, well... it has to wait, of course! For now, based on what I can see and feel, getting it for <SGD 450 is definitely a good buy!